PHISH FESTIVAL POWER RANKINGS
Just How Good Was the Music at Magnaball?
Before we begin, I want to say upfront that I did not attend Magnaball. Due to other vacations and obligations this summer, I was forced to choose between Magnaball and Dick’s. I chose Dick’s because of the low risk of impacting rain, zero risk of crippling heat and humidity, preference for Colorado over upstate New York, and Dick’s stellar batting average. Along with Star Lake, 
Dick’s likely has the highest percentage of great shows out of any current venue. As we know now, I may have made a poor choice: Magnaball was blessed with perfect weather, and the band played three shows for the ages.
But were these three shows simply great for an era when the band members are in their fifties? Or, did Magnaball stack up to the great festivals of the 90s? Now, you may be saying to yourself, “How can someone who didn’t attend Magnaball properly rate it?” My response is that is precisely why I’m well-suited to write this. I’m basing this list on the replay value of the music alone – announced sets only – so no Storage Jam, Tower Jam, etc. It has nothing to do with the vibe, weather, traffic, your pimp RV, coming of age moments, or any other factors that can't be captured on the recording. It’s all about how well the music holds up after the festival is long over. Now that we’ve laid the ground rules, let’s run the numbers.
Tiers represent hard borders in the rankings. Shows can be shuffled within a tier with minimal argument. However, moving between tiers requires a much stronger case.
Tier 1
1) Big Cypress
The Meat: I’m not sure what even needs to be said here. 12/31/99 is greatest Phish show ever. You either know this to be true, or you’re tired of hearing it. But how else can it be described? The first set contains a top-two version of “Split,” and that’s just the appetizer. The second set spits out an almost unimaginable collection of Phish’s greatest improvisations ever: 23-minute “Disease,” 31-minute “Rock and Roll,” 21-minute “Crosseyed,” 36-minute “Sand”-> “Quadraphonic Toppling,” 25-minute “Drowned” -> “After Midnight,” 35-minute “Roses Are Free,” and so much more. Any one of those pieces is enough to make a good show great. Now imagine getting all of them, plus several more hours of brilliant music, in one single set.
The Achilles Heel: I guess you can argue that 12/30 was merely spectacular and not the second greatest show that Phish ever played.
X Factors: The 12/31/99 second set went from midnight to sunrise. Enough said.
12/31/99, Big Cypress, FL – Set II, complete.
Tier 2
2) IT
The Meat: This festival is loaded with replay-worthy riches. Start with the “Ya Mar” and “Birds of a Feather” from the opening set. Move on to the “Disease” and “Waves” in set two. Next, play the perfectly flowing fireball set three. When you’re ready, move on to the greatest “Chalk Dust” ever played and the mesmerizing 30-minute “Ghost” from day two. Then, go back and listen to the whole two days from start to finish to discover so much more.
The Achilles Heel: Perhaps the only flaw of this festival is the final set leaned too heavily on a 39-minute “46 Days.” Take a moment to process that.
X Factors: Mike and Fish were absolute beasts for these shows. Nearly every jam had extra gas coming from the rhythm section. It’s perhaps the pair’s finest festival showing.
8/3/03, Limestone, ME – "Chalk Dust Torture"
3) Magnaball
The Meat: These three days are stocked with improv-heavy play from the opening “Simple” to the closing “You Enjoy Myself.” Start with the best “Bathtub Gin” in twelve years. Then, take in the glorious “Tweezerpants,” brilliant “Blaze On,” and smoking “Light.” All four jams are among the best of the year, with the “Gin” and “Tweezerpants” ranking among Phish’s finest improvisations in the 3.0 era. In between those tent-pole moments, there’s plenty more to keep your ears happy for days.
The Achilles Heel: If we are being fair, Saturday’s day set and Sunday’s first set are somewhat of a letdown given the level of play around them. The third night, although still great, was a significant drop in quality from the first two.
X Factors: Before anyone complains that I have Magnaball underrated at third, think about this: a 20-year, 200+ show jaded vet just rated a festival in 2015 higher than The Great Went, Lemonwheel, and Clifford Ball. If it wasn't for somewhat weak first sets on days two and three, Magna would have overtaken IT as the best Phish festival that wasn’t Big Cypress. And if we include the "secret" drive-in set, Saturday goes down as one of the greatest single shows in Phish history. That’s an incredible feat for a band in their thirty-third year of existence.
8/21/15, Watkins Glen, NY – "Bathtub Gin". Video by LazyLightning55a.
4) Coventry
The Meat: If you are not familiar with the music of this festival, you should be. The “AC/DC Bag,” “Drowned,” and “Split Open and Melt” are among the best – if not the best – versions of each song. Then, listen to the “Jibboo,” “Stash,” “Walls of the Cave,” “Twist,” “Down with Disease,” “Chalk Dust,” “Seven Below,” and the “Dickie Scotland” “Piper.” It’s a wealth of thrilling improvisation unlike any Phish festival, other than Big Cypress.
The Achilles Heel: For as great as many of the jams are, much of the music played at Coventry is painful to hear. Just try listening to the “Glide,” the composed section of “Stash,” the “Harry Hood,” or even first half of the “Drowned” – which again is among the best versions ever – you’ll understand the dichotomy when you hear it. This ranking is just about the replay value of the music on the recordings, but it’s near impossible to separate the music from the emotional horror that so many experienced that weekend. The 36-hour traffic jams, being told to turn around and go home, the toxic mud, the fear that Trey’s health was so bad he might not even make it to the end of the shows. And most of all, that this festival would be “the last Phish concerts ever.”
X Factors: To many in the Phish community, giving any praise to Coventry is equivalent to sympathizing with Nazi Germany. It’s understandable. Talk to anyone who was there. We all have horror stories. We all had moments when we broke into tears. But for our purpose here, we are discussing the music. And the compelling music of Coventry is powered with an intense level of emotion that is not part of any other Phish experience. Being able to latch onto what was going on inside the band member’s heads through the sounds coming out of their instruments may still be painful, but it’s also special and in a strange way, magical. We all seek to feel a connection when we listen to Phish, and this is that connection in its darkest and rawest form. If Coventry had been the last Phish shows ever, I might not be able to write what I’m writing now. But knowing the band is now healthy and happy, these two shows offer some of the most intriguing and powerful two days of music for any fan to revist.
8/15/04, Coventry, VT – "Split Open and Melt"
Tier 3
5) The Great Went
The Meat: The Great Went is chock full of magical nuggets of jammy goodness. Your starting point should be the brilliant second set on day two – a set that many fans consider one of the band’s greatest sets ever with its deep “Down with Disease,” soaring “Gin,” funktastic “2001,” and blissful “Harry Hood.” Backing up that pinnacle set are top notch versions of “Theme From the Bottom,” “You Enjoy Myself,” “Wolfman’s” -> “Simple” and “Halley’s Comet” -> “Cities.” To many who love the band’s 1997 sound, this is Phish at its finest.
The Achilles Heel: If we are really being honest with ourselves, the first set on day two is below average for the era, and the closing festival set is nearly devoid of jamming in a year known for legendary jams.
X Factors: A “Makisupa” into “Harpua” (that concluded the “Harpua” from The Clifford Ball) is classic Phish and couldn’t have opened the festival better. And have I mentioned the second set on day two?
8/17/97, Limestone, ME – "Bathtub Gin"
Tier 4
6) Oswego
The Meat: This mini festival is much maligned, but the truth is there's more interesting play in 7/18/99 than in the entire Clifford Ball and Lemonwheel combined. Don’t believe me? Check out the 22-minute “Gin,” 35-minute “Runaway Jim” -> “Free,” and 25-minute “Piper.” Then, head over to night one for a 20-minute “Tweezer,” 23-minute “Down with Disease,” and a brilliant “Wolfman’s Brother” -> “Sneakin’ Sally Through the Alley” > “Timber Ho” sequence.
The Achilles Heel: Oswego had only five sets, and the play was somewhat inconsistent. Some odd setlist choices definitely hurt the flow compared to festivals with better crafted sets.
X Factors: The third set contains the first “Icculus” in four years, sending off those who had been chasing the rarity quite happy.
7) Clifford Ball
The Meat: This is a magical event filled with tight, confident play. Highlight jams include a monster “Mike’s Song” and a brilliant “Down with Disease” that still holds up today as one of the band’s finest versions.
The Achilles Heel: Unfortunately, the improv highlights end with the “Mike’s” and “Disease.” Yes, there are plenty of tight versions of other songs. But by 1996, Phish had proven they had the ability to do so much more. Compared to the jamming displays of 1994 and 1995, the play from these two nights in Plattsburg was in many ways a step backwards.
X Factors: The Clifford Ball was a spectacular milestone for Phish with some fantastic highlights. If we are allowing other festival factors to be included, this moves up several places. But sadly, outside of a few tracks, the recordings from these shows probably don't do much more than collect dust unless you want to relive your personal memories of being there.
8/16/96, Plattsburgh, NY – "Down with Disease"
8) Lemonwheel
The Meat: Although it doesn’t contain the peaks of The Great Went one year earlier or Oswego one year later, there is still plenty to enjoy, especially the sublime “Wedge” > “Reba” > “Gumbo” -> “Sanity” > “Tweezer” segment from the second set of day one.
The Achilles Heel: There is nothing bad in six sets. The problem is there's not much that stands out either, especially for the era. This may be Phish’s most consistent and solid festival. Unfortunately, it comes at the expense of being a little boring to go back and listen to unless you’re reliving the memories of a great time in Limestone, ME. This festival is a classic example of how shows that make for great times in the moment might not make for great recordings years later.
X Factors: If the ambient fourth set on day one counted for this exercise, Lemonwheel would move up a few spots in the rankings.
Tier 5
9) Festival 8
The Meat: The band covered Exile on Main St with a full horn section and backup singers for Halloween. They played a very rare acoustic set with some gorgeous versions of Phish classics. They encored with “Suzy Greenberg” with horns.
The Achilles Heel: See those three sentences above. That’s the end of the highlight reel.
X Factors: If this festival was graded on concert grounds and amenities, it would be number one on the list. I still give it a slight edge over Super Ball IX based on the Exile set and rare acoustic set, both of which I find more fun to listen to than just about anything from Super Ball. However, if you dislike the Rolling Stones, feel free to place Festival 8 last. Also, please seek help to understand why you don’t like the Rolling Stones.
10/31/09, Indio, CA – "Loving Cup"
10) Super Ball IX
The Meat: This festival is filled with tight play, fun setlists, and lots of “micro moments.” If you are seeking out jams, there’s some fun play in the “Golden Age,” “Crosseyed and Painless,” and “Down with Disease” to start. But nothing ever leaves the comfort zone. You’re better off focusing your attention on blistering covers (“Monkey Man,” “No Quarter,” “Roses Are Free,” “Soul Shakedown Party”) or rare Phish originals (“Scents and Subtle Sounds,” “Colonel Forbin’s Ascent” > “Fly Famous Mockingbird”).
The Achilles Heel: In seven sets of music, there isn’t a single deep jam to write home about. Everything is a little too "safe."
X Factors: Super Ball proponents should not take this last place ranking as an insult to what was by all accounts a truly spectacular event. As mentioned previously, you can easily bump this festival up a spot if Exile on Main St isn’t your thing. Even a last place Phish festival is still a better time than 99.9% of the other things you could have been doing that weekend. Phish is a great band that has put on ten legendary festivals. One of them had to finish at number ten.
7/2/11, Watkins Glen, NY – "Storage Jam"
If you have your own Phish Festival Power Rankings, we’d love to hear them in the comments below.
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Phish.net
The Mockingbird Foundation
Whereas other bands coast on their one hit or simply tour every year with a "greatest hits" setlist (looking at you Tom Petty) Phish is out there every night improvising, trying new music and generally saying "what can we do next?"
In many ways, I had considered Clifford Ball and Big Cypress (aside from 10/31/96) as defining Phish moments. With MB in the books, I feel confident saying that we've got one defining festival per ear (more on IT in a bit).
I love - and appreciate - Cypress as much as the next fan. If you take into account the midnight set, however, and get simply into a discussion regarding the music - and not even song selection but HOW the band played - it isn't unfair to say that seven or so hours of playing is pretty unvaried.
Don't get me wrong: One of my all time favorite moments is Trey's demeanor throughout; when I think of Trey I think of that chill as hell 'swing' running throughout C&P. But one is really being disingenuous if they don't admit that the band covers a LOT of similar ground.
The argument might be: What do you expect?
I'd posit: Anything?
I'd never say that to suggest that the Clifford Ball is a 'step back' is an egregious error in judgement; I do, however, totally disagree. This was the band's high-water mark where they could look about and assess what's up .... where are we going.
(The step back takes place in the subsequent arena tour leading up to 10/31.)
Fans, like me, who had been following the band for years, knew, without a doubt, about their penchant to improvise and jam. But in the moment - and revisiting on 'tape' - the music is great.
If you care about songs played well, you get a festival Esther (check it out people, it's awesome), a Sky, THEN the sun-setting Bowie - these are all flawless. The Second Set Mike's is huge, sorta like the Deer Creek before it. And the Hood - Jam really is worth revisiting.
And the forth set really was a snooze / lose affair.
Opening with OHP pays homage to the band's ritual of beginning 'practice' with 'tea' and bluegrass. Reba remains one of the best. Nothing wrong with Lizards (of course you can argue IT's is better; but it's Lizards). Taste is pretty horrid - but the rest is cool.
If you like fine Phish, Set Two is that: Fine Phish. The bust out is kinda lame, but Fluff, Lope, Slave?
I won't go song-by-song, but the Tweezer is awesome.
If you like to hear Phish playing Phish songs well, I don't know how you could let dust settle upon these sets.
It's cool of you to put COVENTRY where you do - as, contrary to what I penned, I LOVE IT-style Phish, and COVENTRY has some sick, sick playing (one of my other favorite images is Trey with those glow sticks) - but man, this review is about re-listening.... Did you give that Ghost a go before penning your piece? Scary.... Before it gets cool.
If it's about re-listening:
IT
Cypress
for me....
MB just happened.... it'll never my top two / I'll wait and see. I love a lot of that 99 sound.
Great job!
almost an utterly useless subjective 'ranking'
That was towards the end of the era when they were playing virtually every note with intent and lethal virtuosity and precision, without venturing into deep ambient soundscapes. To this day, the energy from those recordings will blow my balls off in a way that very little from any of the other festivals will. Yet it has virtually none of the spacious textured grooves that make you feel like you are on a field in the middle of nowhere, ready to dance indefinitely - which to me has become synonymous with the phish festival experience.
I generally agree with the rankings, would have SuperBall above the Ocho, Oswego last, and I'm not sure how I'd cluster the Went, (C) Ball, and Lemonwheel. Lets go like this:
Cypress, IT, Magna, Coventry, Clifford, Went, Lemonwheel, Super, Ocho, Oswego
Throw in unannounced sets and all the intangibles of attendance (traffic, travel, weather, scene) ...hmm...
Clifford, Magna, Super, IT, Lemonwheel, Coventry, Went, Oswego
(did not attend Cypress or Ocho)
With car time factoring heavily in the weight of the WG and Loring AFB ratings.
Cypress - incomparable
IT/Magna - Tier 1
Clifford/Coventry - Yang/Yin
Went/Lemonwheel - Archetypal
Super/Ocho - Gentrified
Oswego - Ego driven wankery
Clifford #7.
Hmmmmmm.
Phishy
I thought I was the only one who thinks the Great Went is vastly overrated. Kudos for having the balls to say so. I'm also in total agreement with placing IT so high and I do think Magnaball deserves 2nd tier status already.
However...
Clifford Ball at #7?!
You're dead to me.
(I should note that I never been to any festival in person so what the hell do I know?)
Like your tiers, particularly the YIN/YANG....
Point. Went = Overrated
IT better than MB LOFUCKINGL? Coventry better than anything? LOFUCKINGL Clifford Ball at 7? LOFUCKINGL
enjoy dicks
However, this list isn't really a list of the best festivals, musically speaking. You've baked in two bits of methodology that really make it Chris Glushko's Favorite Festivals, According To The Following Rules. The list is personalized to the point that I don't think it's the universal, clear-headed analysis it would be otherwise. (The old, crucial difference between "this is my favorite" and "this is the best."
1) For reasons that are unclear, you've chosen to ignore the set from each festival that many fans would consider the *best music of the event*
2) You say "replay value," but don't seem to acknowledge that replay value is affected by bad playing. A horrendously played "Drowned" has Low Replay Value, rather than being data that is not counted, which seems to be how you've dealt with it.
I'd love to see you go through the "Extra" sets and create a definitive list! I know I have no idea how I'd rank Tower, Storage, Ambient and Drive-In (Disco at least is last), and they largely blur together in my memory.
Again, great work.
I think IT was still better, dont see how that takes anything away from the awesome experience that was MagnaBall
Some people seem to hate 2.0 just because people have told them they are supposed to
1) I did not include the secret sets because they are far to visual in nature to be dissected by just through the recording. Just as there is no way one can do justice to the Tower set by listening to the recordings, I'm sure it's near-impossible to do the same with the Drive-thru set.
2) I did discount for bad play. If we were only talking highlights, Coventry would be #2 after Cypress. There's just too much meat in there. There is no exact science to this as everything is subjective and different things move different people. What I tried to get to is what recordings produce the most interesting music to hear -- just for the music and not simply to relive great memories.
Coventry is obviously controversial because of how bad so much of it is. But in the end, I thought so much of the music was so damn compelling that it deserved to be in tier 2.
A top tier performance.
1) The Lemonwheel one was on the main stage with no extra visuals really.
and
2) The Antelope and Tweezer from the Ball also had visuals that completed affected the jamming. They had to keep it upbeat to make the acrobats' performance relevant.
::ducks and covers::
In fact, the 4th sets of Lemonwheel, IT, SBIX, and Magna are all huge pluses for me, even on tape. Flatbed Jam probably would be too, if a full recording existed. It's hard for me to say that the Great Went Disco detracts from the show, but it certainly doesn't help its case in the rankings.
If I was doing these rankings with the 4th set considered I would put IT as a strong second place (after Cypress of course). Then I would go Went, Magna, Clifford Ball, Coventry, Lemonwheel, SBIX, 8, and Oswego.
Plus it was really, really weird, and far more 'organic' then the later staged events.
Moreover, I don't want to see anything from the Tower Jam (other than whatever is happening upon the 'insides' of my eyelids).
i'm a fan of big, freak out jams. i'm also, as @zzyzx points out, way into transcendent Skies and Rebas....
@cglushko
being one who can look past the 'less' positive aspects of Coventry, aside from the obvious freak outs, where is the meat?
Yeah, but.... Well because of that you're saying there's no place for Coventry? Like the Bag and Melt and 'parts' of other huge versions?
It was like Phish. Running through their catalog. Supercharged by freakin laser beams. Probably with sharks swimming around the field for good measure.
And thank you for the respect; I've been enjoying your comments recently as well!
this said....
i've forever wondered why the band didn't enter one of those jams (i love the JB tweezer; couldn't believe it was Live Bait a couple years ago) - and you may have answered the question for me.
a best sort of rock show ever. (cause i'm with you regarding NYE as well - some of the gags get in the way).
and so i love harpua as E. not just cause it's harpua, or the E, but because it doesn't get in the way of the 'jazz-washed prog-rock.'
1. Cypress
2. Great Went
3. Clifford Ball
4. Lemonwheel
5. Magnaball
6. It
7. Superball
8. Oswego
9. Fest 8
10. Coventry
That (almost unbelievably) this Ball (of a Clifford variety) was actually them playing it tight and conservative and within the lines. Because everything else was so new and creative - the idea of the festival, the size of the sound system, the Orchestra, Ball Square, the aeronautics - that they didn't want to fuck anything up by exploring too deeply and maybe risking not coming back. They didn't push too far to that "without a net" place because, what if this show was their legacy? It was clearly already their biggest stage. So lets stick to what we know we can land and be confident with. And the result is absolutely supercharged.
But then you can hear during the Harpua all the pent up weirdness and ambience. I truly thought a portal had opened up above us and all the divine energy of the universe was channelling down directly upon us at that point. And then ... blueballs...
As is 'ranking' Clifford Ball below Magnaball. Gimme a break.
I'm not here to agree or disagree with the post. But I will say, I've relistened to Cypress, Coventry and Oswego a lot. IX and 8 I don't really listen to, because to me, they offer more of what we were getting, which was well played versions of songs without a lot of big jams. I love Exile, but the Exile set isn't one I listen to much, as I'd rather hear the album. The acoustic is a treat. But I come back for big jams. And as crappy as Coventry is, it does have some of my favorite festival jams. I'll concede that Cypress has a lot of very similar jams throughout, but I also heard a lot of very familiar jams in Magnaball that I've heard this summer. And while Oswego is not a top of the list kind of festival, it has a lot of nice stuff going for it. Oswego is why I love bluegrass, and has an incredible BOTT. Plus that Piper, Jim, Tweezer.
I've never actually listened to Clifford. Weird, huh? That must mean something.
Good read, all. Thank you
....and yeah Coventry needs to come way down - the best Drowned?? Come on - check 6/19/04 it destroys it...///end rant // otherwise great write up and a solid read
I enjoy the idea of Dicks as theater.... It's fun. But even factoring in the handicap that the band is rested; they will be there for three nights; everyone's going to go nuts over what is spelled; and the band is psyched.... I can think of a couple other venues (especially if you allow for PA, which hasn't had the band in a couple yrs) that seem to capture the band's imagination, and produce greater sets -
The bonus sets are purest in their original element, but don't compare to the traditional sets over the long run. It's likely the one instance where I'd say the recorded artifact actually can not recreate the experience.
Coventry however was a disappointing mess. FWIW I waited in that traffic Jam for 48 hours and then had my car demolished as somebody fell asleep at the wheel and came across the median and hit me pushing my trunk into my backseat. I ended up walking the last 12 miles into the venue with my gear on my back to face the mud (on my way home which was a 15 hr drive we had to stop every 2 hours and rest as carbon monoxide from the exhaust was venting into the passenger cabin as we pried stuff away from my wheels so we could make it back home for an obligation - awful headaches for me and my buddy and all that was still fine as I didn't care and I made it.) Emotionally the music was a spiritual catharsis for me but quality wise it was some of the worst playing I can recall and my show count is similar to yours going back to '91. Coventry has to be tier 4 possibly 5.
You did however get the first two right IMHO Cypress and It stand as a cut above the rest IMHO after that you could go a lot of ways as long as cypress goes to the near bottom.
Maybe Cypress> Went> It> Magna. It's all debatable.
But what I really don't understand is why you decided not to consider the special sets. Those were sets of music, and should be included in an analysis of the the festival's music.
Seems like a weirdly arbitrary omission and strange personal choice by the author.
It takes balls to rank Coventry as high as it was ranked - I disagree, but can't argue with the logic. Despite issues with the composed section, that WAS the greatest Melt of all time. The Bag, while not nearly as good as MSG '97 or Boise '99, was still a Top 5 rendition. The highs were high and the lows were low.
One last thought that I know will go against the grain, but I think this community needs to hear it. I guess it's fine to gripe about the "sameness" of some of the BC jamming. But you are not taking into account a) a three-set show that took place the day before and a super-long set that occurred the evening of b) how much energy it takes to play for 7.25 hours in a row (please don't use this sentence to make light of Trey's struggle with drug addiction) and c) given how physically taxing it is to play for 400+ minutes in a row, the mental/creative synapses are not going to be firing full-bore for that freaking long. That's why when you look at the highlights, the preponderance of memorable jams take place in the first half the set, not the second.
1. Big Cypress
2. IT
3. Went
4. Magnaball
5. Oswego
6. Clifford
7. Coventry
8. Lemonwheel
9. Fest 8
10. SB IX
2. My stance on Coventry has been posted any number of times, so I might as well post it here - I have little problem at all listening to a "mediocre" show (of course that's true, I'm a 3.0 fan, ba dum tish), but I have no desire whatsoever to listen to a show that makes me sad. I mean, I know it turns out all right in the end, but that doesn't make the blown changes or the ugly moments or Trey weeping on stage while so full of opiates they were leaking out of his ears any more interesting to me. Like, that's great that there's so many good jams or whatever, but...every other festival on here has a lot of great jams, and none of the other ones involve the band going through (tm @waxbanks) an acrimonious on-stage divorce, so...?
3. I could probably live the rest of my life without reading yet another article/stream of comments that deify Cypress and say it's an "incomparable" show or some shit. You can compare it very, very easily to the rest of December '99, because it sounds a *lot* like the rest of December '99 (which, if you like December '99, is wonderful, but I feel like there's more people than not that love Cypress and don't really have much to say about the rest of the month). I like December '99, for sure, and I like Cypress for sure, but Lord knows I like Fall '99 better, let alone plenty of other tours. I always feel like the main argument to crown Cypress' ass is "they played seven 1/2 hours of jams", to which I say, well, 1) they didn't *really*, and 2) give me 10 minutes and I'll make you a seven-hour mixtape that *fucking wrecks* Cypress on tape. That's how I've always seen Cypress - an incredible mixtape. As a *show*, there are any number of others that beat it for quality jams, diversity of the music, and setlist flow. In my opinion.
Of course, I say all this based on the recordings; if you were there and think it's their greatest show, I'd never attempt to convince you otherwise.
4. I'm not going to go out here and say Festival 8 is anywhere near Magnaball's level or anything, but I think the entry above sells it short. 11/1/09 III, for instance, is a very nice set, "even" for 2009.
5. I have a feeling I'll end up liking Magnaball more than IT as time passes, mainly because Magnaball's great jams never feel like they're just up there jamming for the sake of jamming (which, for all I love 03-04, is a constant 03-04 issue for me), whereas IT's big jams (especially on Day 2) often have a bit more fat in them than I'd like. That 39 minute 46 Days, for instance, is (to me) more length than girth; the already-legendary 8/22/15 Prince Caspian is 23 minutes shorter but feels so much weightier and more packed with quality music.
6. I cannot say enough about the Great Went. You could very, very easily argue that those are the two best back-to-back shows the band has ever played. You could argue that either show is the best one they've ever played. Shit, you could argue 8/17/97 II is the greatest Phish set of all time. I'd make an argument for that before I made one for Cypress, I know that much.
7. Oswego is weird - not least because they just went right back into the tour after it was over. It's the festival that feels least like a festival. And it's got plenty of good music, but it's got no real je nais se quoi, certainly not the way any of the other festivals do - no famous soundcheck, no secret set, no costume, no long set, no era-defining set, no nothing. I've never thought either show is any sort of "best of Summer '99" contender, great jams or no great jams. Shrug.
8. Count me in among those that don't know how/why you'd talk about the festivals without the secret sets - or the soundchecks, for that matter. I adore Magnaball and IT, but it's hard to imagine either festival without their soundchecks and their secret sets.
@jns425 said:
These pieces are performance art where the visuals are just as important as the music. Technically, I could have included the Lemonwheel Ambient set. But once I decided it wasn't fair to rate the other secret sets without considering the visuals, I just eliminated all of them.
If I had included them, Magna and IT stay the same, Lemonwheel jumps Oswego and Clifford Ball, but doesn't move up a tier, and Super Ball flips with Festival 8.
I'm rather amazed so many people are hung up on this.
Otherwise, I did attend every single 1.0 and 2.0 festival, and I have to say I think this list is completely out of whack. Coventry for me is clearly the worst of the bunch, on all fronts, and I almost feel like we're being trolled regarding the ranking and recap of it here. No, it does not contain anything anywhere close to the best versions of Drowned, ACDC Bag, or Split Open and Melt. Coventry was a disaster on all fronts, and if you want to a couple shows from 2004 please make it SPAC.
Regarding the Clifford Ball, @n00b100, I see where you're coming from here, but there was a different kind of 'crispness' and execution to Phish in Summer 96. I'm sorry but you can't compare a Summer 15 first set to 8/16/96 II. I mean you can but I don't think you should. The playing on songs like Jim, Fluffhead are out of control. Consider the Reba, the Disease. I will happily put myself in the camp that say the Ball deserves more respect solely on the merit of playing.
I also think that the extra sets should be considered. The Lemonwheel ambient jam is one of the best things the band did in the late 90s, and it still stands up, and much stronger than anything from IT, for example. I loved IT but I also feel like it tends to be overrated a bit. At the very least I don't see it as that drastically superior to Oswego, which between the Tweezer-> Have Mercy and Jim-> Free, Piper + Icculus madness is a very strong offering.
My two cents.
Enjoy Dicks!
1. Great Went
2. Cypress
3. Magna
4. IT
5. CBall
6. Lemonwheel
7. Oswego
8. Coventry
9. Super Ball
10. Fest 8
However, if we base this solely on JAMMING (and/or REPLAY VALUE), my list becomes very similar to the author's, with Coventry at #5, and with Clifford Ball dropping down to #8
1. Cypress
2. Great Went
3. Magna
4. IT
5. Coventry
6. Lemonwheel
7. Oswego
8. Clifford Ball
9. Super Ball
10. Fest 8
*I will take issue with leaving out "secret' sets, though. Why-I-Outta'!?!?
*There could even be a case for considering sound checks, I say this because this weekend's sound check could have passed for a secret set with absolutely zero detection to most ears. Seems that this is an illustration of the band's maturation as an improvisational unit.
*I didn't go to Coventry. I was ticket-less. I watched the simulcast at a theater with a great sound system and a relatively small crowd and none of the inconvenience that Vermont ticket-holders had to endure. I came away believing that this band was still relevant as a creative force, and this was based solely on the force of the highlights you've mentioned. But there were just too many horrible moments-not characteristic of even that tour- that you can't omit. I believe that almost all of the festivals, and I will admit to little expertise on Went and Clifford Ball, combined don't have as many truly low moments as Coventry. I don't mean boring or average moments, I mean bar-band bad moments. There really were some transcendent moments, truly beautiful, but you can't just edit out all the crap or explain it away with the emotional weight the time if you are only judging "the music."
*I'd also add that I would not eat anyone who would put Magnaball a close second to Cypress. It's true it needs time, but with the sound check and drive-in, it's a whole-helluva lot closer than I would have imagined possible.
Again, I seriously unload mass amounts of proper praise in your specific direction for writing this up!!!!
AAAANNDD, you're dead on about Day 2 at MB!! For a bunch of old guys?? They're still progressing!
I could not agree more, the 03-04 jamming comment is spot on
But whatever. I'll take the wisdom of the crowds. Here's the composite score for each fest based show rating. (For the super nerdy, I did not include the soundcheck ratings).
Went - 4.6685
Cypress - 4.658
Clifford - 4.625
Magna - 4.61333
IT - 4.5495
Lemonwheel - 4.4095
Super - 4.395667
Oswego - 4.378
Fest 8 - 3.90
Coventry - 2.2405
Out of the five I actually attended, had the best time at the Went. How the hell did Oswego become a fest? Someone has Cypress as untouchable and Oswego as "ego driven wankery". These shows took place 6 months apart!!!
Crazy.
Don't overthink Coventry. It was not a good time.
TLDR; I didnt custy up for Magna but Im goin to Dicks.
what a joke.. you try to make sense but your article is full of bull.
sorry dude. Magnaball was the best.
sincerely 20 years of touring approaching 300 shows.
honestly I cant believe anyone read this crap..
Oswego was better musically than the Cilfford Ball?
Everybody has a right to their opinion, but you have to draw the line somewhere. Those are two of the most laughably incorrect opinions about Phish I have ever encountered.
While I can understand leaving out the soundchecks...and possibly the Flatbed Truck Jam, the other "bonus" sets are integral parts of their respective festivals' musical experience. Can't justify excluding them in the ranking process.
I would shuffle the deck thusly: (within a given tier, it's basically splitting hairs)
Transcendent
1. Big Cypress
Epic
2. Great Went
3. Magnaball
4. Lemonwheel
Awesome
5. Clifford Ball
6. Superball
7. IT
Very Good
8. Oswego
9. Festival 8
Rough (with a handful of diamonds)
10. Coventry
I agree as well. And I've had a Phish navel-gazing journey over the last few years really expanded the range where I feel like they might be jamming for jammings sake. At first I just felt really strongly that 03-04 were unfairly maligned because the actual improvisation wasn't the dropoff from 99-00 that people made it out to be. And then I started thinking all of it wasn't quite what it was cracked up to be. And then the goalpost started encroaching into Fall 98 and eventually into 97 too. Something like the Went DWD does roughly nothing for me. And a lot of big 97-00 jams seem to go through really long stretches where nobody has an idea. Sometimes that perserverence pays off like the Hampton Halley's which caps a generic jam with one of the best 4 minute stretches of Phish ever. Sometimes I can't believe that they're still riding that funk chord instead of audibling out into a new song or at least pushing the jam somewhere weirder. Maybe with time I'll start becoming more aware of the similarities of the jams in 2012, 2013, 2014 or 2015 and I'll just revise the whole thing to "93-95 Phish is the pinnacle and everywhen else certainly had its moments"
All that, and still... I have a hard time with these rankings even if we're just going on the merits of Type II Improvisation and ignoring everything else. If Coventry is in the Top 5, I refuse to believe that anything else has anything to do with the ranking.
And then I look at Magnaball and wonder just how high I'd have to put it since I find the 46 Days, Cities> Light, Tweezer-> Caspian, DWD-> Scents, Blaze On, Chalkdust> Ghost-> ?<-?-> !Rock & Roll-> Hood to be, personally, a more interesting form of improvisation than all but the upper crust of Type II from the 1.0 and 2.0 festivals.
But ranking them just on Type II just wouldn't be fair to the music. So going from a more holistic perspective but still just taking into account the announced sets of music..
1. Big Cypress
2. The Great Went
3. Magnaball
4. IT
5. Lemonwheel
6. Clifford Ball
7. Oswego
8. Superball
9. Coventry
10. Festival 8
That was way tougher than I thought it would be, and I'm not happy with the results at all. Just going to stick with the way they popped into my head first though. Seems more rational than any other order I can put them in.
One last thought, as people were killing one of the sets of Magnaball for not having enough improv, I remembered that the Great Went has a set where the highlight was a weirdo Scent of a Mule, and a whole day of the Clifford Ball's longest song is Scent Of A Mule.
When the band is getting as spacey as those years are thought of (often pejoratively) as being, they're fucking wonderful.
When they get into something spritely and melodic and rhythmic all at once, it's great.
But much more often, it's this Hawkwind-ish permashred dominating the proceedings.
And my love for that kind of thing waxes and wanes. It's been somewhere between New Moon & Crescent for the last few years, but this time next year I might adore a 15 minute guitar solo in Piper again.
The correct ranking is here:
1. Big Cypress
2. ALL OTHER FESTIVALS
3. Coventry
I cannot echo this comment enough. I've seen shows since '96 and I really love the jams that are being produced now more than in any other era. It really seems like almost every jam has a purpose. If they catch the jam not going anywhere or they can't lock up, then they don't just noodle around searching for the groove. They move on to the next song and see if it's journey is meant to be.
Agreed, and that's true for every fest, right? Doing so would be Simple for the Went (which is basically three jaw-dropping sets and three regular ones), except said summer '97 mix tape wouldn't include creating a huge sculpture and more or less inventing the glow-stick war . . .
This article has shown me I can't separate the experience from the festival. I can't compare the all-night experience to the art Jam experience or the ring of fire jam. I wasn't even at the Tower or Storage jams.
I've found my reductionist limit for comparing music. In another thread I said that I couldn't compare Cypress to other festivals because the all-night experience was unique. That was wrong, I have to amend that to all festivals. Personal memories and experiences, different # of days/sets/extras . . . there are too many variables for me to wrap up into a ranking.
I'm becoming more of a noob every year. "it's all about the energy/flow" "I wish I had been there/you had to be there" "damn that Free was hot" - these are things I say now, that used to bug me when other people said them. here's one more . . .
08/23 II was my favorite set of Magnaball. Was it the best? No, that would be 08/22 II.
what have I become? whatever it is, I love it. it's lots of fun.
So, yeah, I would have had the Went higher, and I do not in any way think that it was an overrated festival. I don't really object to any of the other rankings.
And, I know 4th sets and the like are not part of the criteria, but the disco set was pretty cool. MC Neon Celgap anyone?
I've noticed in 3.0 that more and more spot reviews of shows emphasize on the time length of tunes from the show (i.e. "The second set featured a 20+ minute Gin "
Given my perspective, I can't stand Coventry obviously. And I absolutely LOVE Clifford Ball!!! Give me some rip roaring type I with great set lists and I'll be happy as hell. I listen to Clifford Ball a ton and think it stands up very well.
I also think when ranking on re-listen value nothing should be discounted. If you're skipping tracks because they stink well that means the set stinks. So you must sit through the Coventry Glide while assessing that show. Any poor songs have to take away from the good ones. Yet another reason I would end up ranking Clifford Ball high.
I don't think I'm quite ready to make my list but I would have Clifford Ball and Magnaball top 4 for sure and Fest 8 and Coventry at the bottom for sure.
Also, I would just add that while the amenities and comfort level at the new festies is refreshing for an older phan, there was something really awesome about waking up in a sea of tents as far as the eye can see, walking a mile down a runway to get into a show, sitting in traffic that was literally not moving for hours at a time and tailgating on the highway, etc. that everyone should get the chance to experience. Kind of like when our parents/grandparents would wax nostalgic about walking 5 miles to school, uphill both ways, with newspapers wrapped around their feet because they couldn't afford shoes.
You got 99 comments...and my bitch is one.
That said, I love your tiers and I'll agree with almost all of your rankings. Did I say I hate rankings, hehehehe!
transcendent!!!
1. Big Cypress
Epic:
Magnaball (closer to transcendent than I thought was possible.)
Great Went
Lemonwheel
Awesome:
IT
Clifford Ball
Very Good (VG):
Camp Oswego
Superball
Festival 8
Rough (Several transcendent moments (TM), arguably more TM than some festivals in VG or awesome tiers.) But the roughness ruled the festival in a way that's not even comparable top any of the fests.
10. Coventry
Good Phun! Thanks!
1. Cypress
2. Went
3. IT
4. Clifford Ball
5. Lemonwheel
6. Magna
7.Oswego
8. Superball
9. Fest 8
10. Coventry
I would have to agree with his thoroughly, like others here have said. I felt like 2.0 jamming was forced and often felt awkward, some of it is more complete on re-listen than it seemed in the moment, though, but not all and it was definitely an endemic.
I could have absolutely never imagined that in 3.0, 2015, I would be saying "I'll take that short little Caspian over that huge 46 days, well, any day!
2. It
3. Went
4. Clifford Ball
5. Magnaball
6. Lemonwheel
7. Coventry
8. SuperBall
9. Oswego
10. 8
I think even the sound check from Magnaball is a great example of this, a jam from beginning to end, but (to my ears) little-to-none of the seemingly-pointless noodling. And that was essentially PRACTICE. They operate as a cohesive-improvisational unit, seemingly effortlessly, much more of the time than they EVER have. Maybe?
For my pointless contribution, here's my ranking of the 10 Festival DWDs:
1. Great Went
2. IT
3. Clifford Ball
4. Cypress
5. Magnaball
6. Oswego
7. Lemonwheel
8. Coventry
9. Festival 8
10. Superball
There are some monster Diseases in there.
1. The Clifford Ball
2. Big Cypress
3. The Great Went
4. Magnaball
5. Lemonwheel
6. IT
7. Camp Oswego
8. Festival 8
9. Superball
10. Coventry
Then, a year later, they up the ante with the same festival vibe, but adding all time great versions of songs.
Then, two years later, Big Cypress goes down. Three totally transcendent moments for Phish fans at the time.
IT had some amazing music, but would I rate it higher than Clifford, Went, or Cypress? Not a chance, because contextually it wasn't a watershed moment in the big picture.
Now, MagnaBall could be a different animal. The consistency of the jams, combined with where the band is in their career, may qualify as a watershed moment, i.e. the moment that even the most jaded of vets has to admit that Phish 3.0 has some serious shit to offer, and likely will for some time to come. And that is a great feeling!
This is all I have to say. Carry on.
I agree! Well put!
Let me preface by saying these generalizations I make are huge leaps, just made for discussion sake!
I think there is almost a presupposition of some 'noodling' involved in improvisational-rock music. What's striking me as a general characteristic of what I'm hearing now, is the minimal amount of noodling that gets to a maximum amount of cohesive jamming.
In other words there was almost no 'noodling' from '09- Dick's '12, but there was almost no jamming either.
What impresses me now, especially this summer, is that it seems there are many more cohesive jammy moments while the dissonant, unconnected-sounding music is minimal.
We could call it the jam-to-noodle quotient! Or whatever!! Ha!
Seems that some fans who, for whatever the reason - it doesn't matter - began following the band after '09, suffer from a complex which prohibits them from outright admitting that the product was simply superior before Coventry.
This translated in person, and holds true on tape.
Those who have written about Coventry, and it's proper placement (bottom) have made convincing arguments. @andrewrose , however, points to some sick summer shows.
and 03 boasted some awesome shows too, running up to IT - a festival which should be 'high,' and whose Tower Jam should be included (sounds way better than it looked, anyways)....
Even the mistakes and off nights along the way were more interesting (forgetting the reasons why) than what we have today.
But what makes 2015 so freaking cool is the suggestion that this isn't another pinnacle, but a 'point' in yet another fascinating trajectory (new tunes, 10/31 tunes considered)....
Even a fun, but less 'inspired' Dicks run can't take anything away from this summer.
But having experienced MB - I wasn't at Nevada for the Tweezer - I still think one should at least let the tour run out, and a new run begin, before placing MB above, in no particular order:
Cypress
C. Ball
Went
It
Because that Tweezer is still pretty cool, but I heard a couple versions this year that I think are much better.
I have listened to Big Cypress and it is, of course, Phish of the highest quality doing something earth-shattering.
The music of Magnaball is very different from BC, but I think it is overall better if you are looking for unique ideas and perfect moments of untold bliss. The 5+ hours of music last Saturday are being considered the greatest show of all time by many, and with good reason.
Regardless of rankings, phans are legitimately having conversations like "How would you rank Magnaball against Big Cypress and IT" and it's become a matter for debate instead of immediate dismissal. If you told someone two weeks ago that serious conversations of this sort would be happening today, their minds would be blown wide open.
The state of Phish in 2015 is truly a gift. They are alive, vital, and experiencing another peak, like all the playing since 2009 has been building them back up to a point where they can again destroy the world.
I will never forget Magnaball and the great times we had there. Tweezerpants is probably my favorite section of Phish ever. The DWD-> Scents-> WTU-> Dirt is up there with my favorite suites of all time along with classics like the C&P-> Light-> Sally-> C&P from 8/19/12. In an era where feels are more important than shreds, Magnaball is king.
and i too sort of post 'recklessly.' but i mean no harm and it's fun; like i've said once before: it's not like i can actually play.
All that, and still... I have a hard time with these rankings even if we're just going on the merits of Type II Improvisation and ignoring everything else. If Coventry is in the Top 5, I refuse to believe that anything else has anything to do with the ranking.
And then I look at Magnaball and wonder just how high I'd have to put it since I find the 46 Days, Cities> Light, Tweezer-> Caspian, DWD-> Scents, Blaze On, Chalkdust> Ghost-> ?<-?-> !Rock & Roll-> Hood to be, personally, a more interesting form of improvisation than all but the upper crust of Type II from the 1.0 and 2.0 festivals.
But ranking them just on Type II just wouldn't be fair to the music. So going from a more holistic perspective but still just taking into account the announced sets of music..
1. Big Cypress
2. The Great Went
3. Magnaball
4. IT
5. Lemonwheel
6. Clifford Ball
7. Oswego
8. Superball
9. Coventry
10. Festival 8
That was way tougher than I thought it would be, and I'm not happy with the results at all. Just going to stick with the way they popped into my head first though. Seems more rational than any other order I can put them in.
One last thought, as people were killing one of the sets of Magnaball for not having enough improv, I remembered that the Great Went has a set where the highlight was a weirdo Scent of a Mule, and a whole day of the Clifford Ball's longest song is Scent Of A Mule.[/quote]
like your take as usual.... however, regarding the MULES (and i don't love them late in any show):
the went MULE has a legit (and the 'last') DDLJ, which the band, in their own estimation, reserves for 'big' shows (i'm sure you know which).... so it's 'better' than your average mule.
and for anyone to mention song length in c. ball discussion is (still) simply missing the point. if "Y"ou listen to the music and don't like it, that's the end of it. but it's about power and precision, the aim of the band realized. for what it's worth, i don't think the band had the same stated objective with MB, nor do i feel they walked off stage thinking.... well, nothing left to do from here.
thinking randomly, but in a related vein:
how cool would it be to hear phish play roggae and 46 days in 96, at the ball.
like your take as usual.... however, regarding the MULES (and i don't love them late in any show):
the went MULE has a legit (and the 'last') DDLJ, which the band, in their own estimation, reserves for 'big' shows (i'm sure you know which).... so it's 'better' than your average mule.
and for anyone to mention song length in c. ball discussion is (still) simply missing the point. if "Y"ou listen to the music and don't like it, that's the end of it. but it's about power and precision, the aim of the band realized. for what it's worth, i don't think the band had the same stated objective with MB, nor do i feel they walked off stage thinking.... well, nothing left to do from here.
thinking randomly, but in a related vein:
how cool would it be to hear phish play roggae and 46 days in 96, at the ball.
I basically echo the landslide of comments in this thread that feel about the start to finish playing of the Clifford Ball as I do. Especially the guy who defends the Clifford Ball the same way he defends his children from large mammals. That's meet. Clifford Ball is Phish gold, and while I won't argue it being 1, I will not accept it being out of the top 3. And certainly nothing in 2003 is in the same class.
Best Slave and Fluffhead ever. Watching the video confirms how locked and loaded those two shows were. If there were a third night I think it would have flew off the handle.
I've said for a decade we need phan surveys of shows by year and and all time versions of songs. I have a proposition to Ellis and Charlie during the preview of the new phish.net on September 2009 but I was shot down.
Who knows if we will ever know what the consensus is, but this ranking really throws me.
Also I agree Coventy should be not applicable or permanently last place. There was nothing musical going on.
I'm stoked to read that I've been to the "best" (Cypress) and 2nd worst (Indio) festies. Have to say they were both amazing shows...but Cypress was and is the highlight of my life and I've had a pretty good life
Also, want to add that opting for Dick's instead of something else is a safe bet. Coming up on our 5th Dick's weekend and my money is all in on Big Red.
See ya'll on Friday
::Glide'd::
Did I enter a alternate reality?
There was a year or two there where Phish almost never let themselves get deep into the improvisation. In 2011 & 2012 they loosened the reigns considerably but still seemed to have significantly higher standards for what jams were worth continuing than us refugees from the late 90s and early 00s were used to. The last three years they seem to have really lightened up on that. And since the batting average for longish-long jams from 2011 & 2012 was astronomically high, it became a convenient shorthand. If a jams long, it's probably pretty damned good. If it wasn't, they'd have stopped and started the next song.
At some point a few years ago I started wondering if Phish was going through a conscious re-evolution of their sound following similar lines to the original evolution. I was curious about when they'd hit the "97" period on that re-evolution, and it feels like maybe we're there. Set construction is at a premium, the jams are long, and the jokes are rare.
It's pretty hard to shake me from thinking 2011 & 2012 are the pinnacle of the last 15 years if we're looking solely at Type II improvisation, but they're certainly putting shows together in a way that's more cohesive and playing tighter in the composed sections lately.
Random show/jams I totally forgot about until the other day: 7/31/99 David Bowie & Simple. I always forget how weird that Bowie gets, and I can't believe I ever forgot the "reverse Simple jam" where they bring the beauty up to a peak instead of working it down to nothing. I was reminded of it when making a case that Caspian has had way more interesting moments in it's history than a lot of songs that don't generate similar levels of revulsion in the fanbase.
I wasn't trying to slam those sets as much as point out that some of the most beloved shows of all time aren't overly concerned with deep type II and that peoples anger at one of 8 sets being improv-light really seems to forget that Phish existed before 1997.
1. Went - Day Two, Set II
2. Cypress - Day Two, Set II
3. Magnaball - Day Two, Set II
4. IT - Day Two, Set II
5. (Went - Day One, Set II)
Why is the second set of the second day the sweet spot? I can't imagine this list is way out of the mainstream. Any thoughts as to why they consistently nail this "specific" set?
cypress (meatstick - sort of, but....): DWD
MB: WOLFMAN'S
IT: GHOST (although day one II has the nice DWD and Waves)
went 1: WOLFMAN'S
and then:
Coventry II: DWD (with the melt and ghost of course)
not to sound like an idiot, but perhaps confidence of the plan going in. these are songs that the band seem to 'shape' to suit the sound they inhabit in the moment.
and this holds true even earlier....
I have only attended one Phish festival in my life, Magnaball, and I thought it was great. Really, really great. However, I don't think one can credibly claim that 1) Magnaball is better musically than Went and 2) they don't smoke PCP. The argument that a couple Went sets weren't as improv heavy as most shows of the era doesn't pass the smell test because only sets 2 and MAYBE 3 of night 2 at Magnaball would be anywhere close to being as improv heavy as most 1997 shows (maybe set 2 night 1 of Magnaball too). This is like when people tried to say MPP2 last year was better than the Bomb Factory when there was serious jamming at the Bomb Factory in addition to the Tweezer seguefest.
Similarly, I personally think Coventry gets hated on slightly too much because of all the horrendous shit people faced getting there and being there but there were some great jams there (as well as tons of horrible musical moments). That being said, Went was obviously better, and it isn't even close.
Besides that though, list seems mostly spot on. Cypress was definitely the best and It or Went were next. Clifford Ball is overrated and without question Festival 9 and Superball were the two worst; I would personally also go with Superball being the worst of the two and I think representative of 2011 being the worst 3.0 year for Phish (worst year since at least the very early 1990s and probably 1980s). Thank God they pulled out of that slump in 2012 and have been killing it ever since.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'similarly.'
Although I totally agree w/ your MPP / Factory take.
My guess, based upon your C Ball comment, is that you got into the band post-hiatus, or, probably, post-Coventry. I'm not here to say the C. Ball is #1, but at #7, or wherever it is here, it simply is not overrated. In general terms, it's all but impossible to overrate.
The only problem I have with @cglushko is that he says only one or two tracks are worth revisiting.
The show was so long ago I don't remember a ton. So when I do put the music on, it's not lProustian or something; memories don't come flooding back. I simply hear an era of Phish music sun-splashed and dazzling. I'll defend the _music_ every time I see it dissed. Not just cause I was there, but because the music was that good.
This great thread prompted me to use my computer to create one great set culled from the various festival sets.
C. Ball music stands toe-to-toe with with best of the best; better yet, if "O"ne gives the exercise a try, you'll find the music refreshingly varying in nature.
Even the Mule, which has been discussed here (and didn't make my tape) is really musical, especially for new-era fans who feel the need to overly defend the music (the music doesn't need anyone now; it 'speaks' for itself). It's Muleish, but not wildly different from the other night's Twist - in terms of approach. It even has a really cool drum breakdown. And Page is playing, as opposed to goofily lauding Fish for his work on the 'Marimba Lumina.' Even a song like Contact, in the groove, isn't played like you're at the Prom; you can get down (this didn't make my tape either). But hit the three minute mark and you'll confuse it for a hot little bit of some 98 Tube.
Like another poster said; it's like people were told not to like 03/04 or something. Big mistake.
If the songs aren't 'jammed' out - although some of them are - this is MORE than made up for by the 'absence' of awkward vamping, comping, noodling, spacing, etc.
Sorry to post again. Place C. Ball wherever you want; just don't call it overrated; it is just historically, and objectively, inaccurate.
However, measuring The Phish is Simple, when we've got a band, the best show is always the next one on the calendar, if that day isn't today! We all still come together and listen live and that's always the best venue/setlist/fest to me, the 5 w's don't apply, we all keep it rolling! Who listens to Cypress "Sand" when there is a live show on? (98 Bi-Lo first show, BIG Cypress, Coventry, SBIX, are ones I was lucky enough to attend) Ha! Cheesecake! The only time is now.
This is a well-written, thoughtful, provocative, and controversial article in which the author sticks to his clearly defined and entirely logical parameters. I don't agree with everything he wrote (especially re: Coventry, which I think is unrankable) but I see where he's coming from, especially when you realize that quality in his rankings is almost entirely based on type-II improvisation. And you all need to relax and not take it so personally
Now, as for Coventry over the Went, well, there's some validity lost.
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Tier I:
Cypress
Went
IT
Tier II:
Magnaball
Lemonwheel
Clifford Ball
Tier III:
Superball IX
Coventry
Oswego
Festival 8
I've only watched the Big Cypress video twice, but I still can't suss out in a completely satisfying way exactly what drugs Trey is doing from/off his 'drink' container. Has anyone else found themselves distracted in this way while watching the video? Any ideas? I mean, if I were a rock star and inclined to have a little lift, I could imagine having my roadie dump a quarter-ounce of pure in my cola. But Trey's on-stage drug administration doesn't appear so straightforward. Now that I've planted the seed, the next time you watch the video it will seem that Trey can't keep his hand off that darned cup. And it looks like he's snorting liquid or something out of an indentation (reservoir?) in the lid. Seriously, watch how he brings the cup up to his face but doesn't seem to be drinking anything. I'm just curious.
I think Oswego are some of the most underrated Phish shows that I know of. 99 is one of my favorite years so i am a bit biased. There are a handful of jams in those 2 shows that are towards the top of my "best ever" lists. That Gin & Jim are absolutely stellar versions. But that Piper & Tweezer > Have Mercy is some of the crunchiest Phish I have ever witnessed. OMG so freaking good. Seriously I challenge anybody to show me a better Piper. That is all-time stuff right there. Its easily the best version of that song the band has ever played. An awesome awesome Reba & a kick ass YEM also. Whoever said that Oswego is "ego driven wankery" is very wrong IMO.
I like your point about fest 8 being #1 for setting and grounds. 100% correct. Non music it was one of the coolest events ive ever attended. That place was beautiful. A Halloween wonderland. I rank it higher musically than most because Exile has always been one of my favorite albums so it was special for me. Also because of that noon acoustic set. What a gorgeous afternoon laying in that perfect grass listening to some Phish favorites played in such a unique fashion. It really was badass.
Superball night 3 is one of my favorite 3.0 shows. The restof that weekend was well below average.
Magnaball was great but the immediate fluffing right after the show was both predictable and comical. Its best to wait to write an honest review when youre off cloud 9. I mean it was great but #3? Gimme a break.
But man oh man your Coventry ranking is ridiculous. It is a little hard to understand your logic on that ranking. Some of your credibility is lost on that one.
1) Cypress
2) Went
3) Oswego
4) Clifford Ball
5) IT
6) Magnaball
7) Fest 8
8) Lemonwheel
9) Superball
-----------------------
10) Coventry
-Cypress
-Went
-IT
-Clifford
-Magna (tied with
-Lemonwheel
-Coventry
-Oswego
-8
-Superball